"Is the Bible reliable?" That’s the question some in the academic field have been asking for the past two centuries. Discover what archaeologists have found to support that the scriptures are historically true.

May 29, 2008

Archaeology and the Bible, Part 2 w/ Dr. James Hoffmeier

For over 200 years controversy has raged over the reliability of the Bible. At the same time the field of archaeology continues to confirm the Biblical account is true. I’m Charles Morris and welcome to Haven Today where we tell the great story that’s all about Jesus. This is part 2 of a program called “Archaeology and the Bible, Part 2 w/Dr. James Hoffmeier”. Stay with us and a little bit later before we leave each other today I want to tell you how to get a copy of Dr. Hoffmeier’s brand new book “The Archaeology of the Bible”. As we begin our time together let’s make it a time of worship with the group 33 Miles and there song “There is a God”.

Song: There is a God
Performed by: 33 Miles

Welcome again to Haven Today. I’m Charles Morris and on the line with us from the greater Chicago area is archaeologist Dr. James Hoffmeier. Jim Hoffmeier you’re not only a scholar you’re my brother in the Lord and welcome back to our program today.
JH: Thanks for having me.
CM: We’ve got you on and we’re talking about the archaeology of the Bible, which we talked about the Old Testament yesterday. We’re going to dig into New Testament findings today. And I should mention, if somebody missed yesterday’s program we’ve got that side of the interview up on our website, haventoday.org and then they can also read a lot about this amazing new book, plenty of pictures, charts, maps but what I appreciate is you have gone into the latest findings and there are many, because sometimes our Bible handbooks and things we have have findings that are dating back many decades so, just thank you for your scholarship and your work that helps all of us in the church of Christ.
JH: Well, archaeology is a dynamic discipline. Things are always changing. What you think may be the case one day a discovery the next day changes that. So we’ve got to stay on top of things.
Cm: Well, certainly so and it seems amazingly so that, while you don’t pin your faith on archaeology, there are these little confirmations – sometimes big confirmations – that come along which seem to go against what some detractors are saying like there wasn’t every any real Israel or there wasn’t a Davidic kingdom. And before we plunge into the New Testament I’ve got to ask you one more thing that we didn’t get to on our last time together. There’s been a very recent finding in Jerusalem related to the Davidic kingdom. Could you kind of outline that for us?
JH: Well, the excavations you’re referring to are being directed by Dr. Eilat Mazar, she is an expert on Jerusalem, worked there for many years. Her roots are there in archaeology of Jerusalem but she has been working on what we call the City of David on the slopes of Ophal, actually she’s on the top of Ophal and she’s uncovered – and this is an ongoing project,
CM: OK
JH: so it’s not something that we can speak of definitively but she has found very thick walls, stone construction, a major building complex that certainly seems to chronologically fit the time of King David. She seems to think that this is the case and others agree with her. Of course there are skeptics who question it but again, there’s no inscription saying “this is David’s temple”, “David slept here,” but the pottery and other artifacts that are found of course provide clues for the dating and so based on that she feels it comes from around 1000 before Christ and that would,
CM: That would fit the time table
JH: that would fit the time period for David in Jerusalem and we know that David first resided in what had been the Jebusite city but then he expanded or built a palace. He built the Milo we’re told and then Solomon built yet another palace. And so it won’t be easy untangling all of this because you have houses in the area, people living there but in any event this is an important discovery and people who are interested should keep their eye out for more information on this.
Cm: And just, let’s just touch on this again quickly so people will know. There are some modern scholars who want to say there was no Kingdom of David and you pointed out on our last time together that there are a couple of ancient steles which are not even, they would be from other nations but they would refer to the House of David and also there being a kingdom.
JH: right, well I think even some of the skeptics would now say that these new, or the recently discovered inscription of, referring to the House of David from Tel-Dan, they would say, “Yes, there is a House of David but he’s probably just a little shepherd chieftain maybe sitting on a, living in his tent up in Jerusalem. “And so that’s why this discovery of major architecture for the period of David is important because this would show that if it was a tent it had a very big foundation.
CM: Yes, well absolutely. Let’s move on to the New Testament here. Jim, I can remember going to college – I’m in my 50s, so 30 years ago or so – I can remember being told in a New Testament course, New Testament history that there is no evidence that there was a Pontius Pilate. Well, there is evidence now, isn’t there, thanks to archaeology?
JH: Right, well Pontius Pilate’s name was actually known from Roman period documents.
CM: Yes, but no evidence.
JH: Yes, he was known outside the Bible but in terms of actual references to him in ancient Israel or Palestine that is a newer discovery. His name was found on a block or stone that was discovered in Caesarea Maritima, that’s the same Caesarea where Paul was held prisoner before he went to Rome.
Cm: And would have preached the Gospel to one of the Herods in the amphitheater
JH: Right, yes, yes, yes
CM: Yes
JH: Well there’s little doubt, and the other thing of course, the inscription although it’s broken one can clearly read what it is, and it’s part of a dedication that he made to the Emperor Tiberius, who was the emperor at the time of Christ’s life. It’s, what’s rather interesting about it, it seems that he built a chapel or a shrine of some sort to the emperor, after all the town was called Caesarea for the Caesar
Cm: Yes, in the name of Caesar.
JH: It was originally built by Herod the Great but he must have built a structure called the Tiberium after Tiberius. Now remember, he had done this apparently – and that’s why Jewish leaders who were trying to bring accusations against Jesus and they were failing they said, “Well, you’re no friend of Caesar’s if you let this guy go!” And of course, he wanted to be known as a friend of Caesar’s that’s why he built this monument. So, that’s rather interesting because it seems to bring not only the person into the historical sphere in Israel but it also seems to elucidate a little bit what these leaders were accusing him of.
CM: Hm. Wow. Well, let’s back up a little bit here and I hope we have time for – there’s a lot of things I want to talk to you about – but the life of Christ, you deal with that in your new book, “The Archaeology of the Bible” and I just want to commend you again. It’s a great book and we’ll tell people a little more about it later. What do you get into? What’s your read on archaeology and the life of Christ, the birth and then the ministry and death? What kind of evidence is there out there?
JH: Well, there are a number of important things and some very significant archaeological sites have been dug in recent decades such as Capernaum which was Jesus’ home base of operations for his Galilean ministry, the city of Sephoras, which is near Nazareth is still being excavated and that has proved to be quite elucidating. It’s about 4 miles from Nazareth and it was actually being built during the years Jesus would have been growing up by Herod Antipas. And it has a theater and wonderful buildings with mosaics and so on. But some have even theorized that Joseph the carpenter may have sought employment while this city was being built
CM: Sure. Close enough he could have
JH: And young Jesus who would have probably been his father’s apprentice would have gone along and helped and learned and –
CM: Might have actually worked there
JH: and so there’s a lot of interesting possibilities but what this has done is it has shed light on Galilee in the time of Jesus’ growing up years and his adult years and what it shows us is that Galilee was no cultural backwater. This was a city, as I said, that had a theater. And one wonders, because of the theater there remember when Jesus talked about the hypocrites. That word derives from the Greek word that’s used for the masks that were worn by the actors in the theaters. So a hypocrite is one who wears a mask playing, pretending to be something he or she is not.
CM: As an actor does, yes
JH: So these might be the sort of things he actually had seen at a place like Sepherous.
CM: and Greek was in common use. It was a trade language and the Great Road to the Sea went right through that area
JH: Right
CM: So there would have been trading. And I know there is a theory out there that Jesus and his disciples spoke Greek too. But let’s go back to Capernaum because, for those of us who’ve been there, they’ve identified the synagogue that Jesus would have taught in
JH: Right, the synagogue was discovered and it’s quite well preserved. But when they looked at all the coins and information provided archaeologically it turns out to be from several hundred years after the time of Jesus, but further excavation showed, and you can see this in pictures or if you go there, that the structure you see today was built out of a white limestone, very pretty white stone
CM: right
JH: But underneath it one can see that the earlier foundations were made out of black basalt and so it’s thought that the original first century synagogue was the one underneath and then it was rebuilt, refurbished right on the very place of the earlier one. So if you go there today what you see and walk through is actually a later synagogue you step outside and look at the foundations which are exposed by the archaeologists you can see the black stone of the earlier synagogue that goes back to the time of Jesus.
Cm: And also then just not too far, a few hundred yards or so away they’ve identified Peter’s mother-in-law’s home too, which is where Jesus would have stayed.
JH: That’s right. That is a very likely scenario. There’s a very early type of Christian architecture basically a hexagonal structure built around the house that was clearly delineated from all the other houses in the area because it was used as an early place of worship, very early in the Christian era. It was plastered and preserved and so on and so it is logically thought that this must have been the house of Peter because there is no other reason for this house to be singled out for special treatment and for it to be a place of worship by early Christians. And what’s also interesting is that the harbor area has been found and the keys or the place where the boats would pull in and load and unload has been found and as of now it looks like the Capernaum harbor is one of the biggest if not the largest of the harbors that have been found in recent years. Going back in the mid 1980s, the water levels in the Sea of Galilee had dropped due to lack of rain, lack of snow on the mountains north of the Sea of Galilee and as the water levels went down it exposed the ancient harbors, the stone outline of the harbors. So these have all been mapped and documented and so on and there are more than a dozen harbors that were found and these would have been places where Jesus and his disciples would have got off and on during their travels across the Galilee and so, this is all very exciting.
CM: It is. It was a much busier place then, at the time of Christ than it is today of course.
JH: Right, right.
CM: And it wasn’t just sleepy fishing villages.
JH: Right, right.
CM: It’s much more than that.
JH: Right, bustling with activity.
CM: That’s right, yes. Hey, if you have just joined us here on Haven Today we are calling the program “The Archaeology of the Bible” and on with us is Dr. James Hoffmeier, he teaches at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School but we’re having him on because he’s a real live, working archaeologist. And there aren’t a whole lot of those around. There are people who teach archaeology and go over and participate on digs but Jim, thank you for taking some time because you’re the real deal and I appreciate that very, very much. I’m looking at your book right now and I don’t want to miss this, one of my favorite pictures in your entire book is on page 173 and it would have – I think you told me it’s a picture you even took – it’s a real Roman road. And isn’t it interesting that Roman roads are still around and this would have been a road that I guess the Apostle Paul would have walked on?
JH: Well, we’re talking about recent excavations at the site of Salamos on the island of Cyprus.
CM: Of Cyprus, yes.
JH: Paul and Barnabas went on their first missionary journey and you remember that Barnabas was a native of Cyprus. So he wanted to take his friend Paul and go to his homeland if you will and his town, the town where he grew up probably and there share the Gospel with people. And just, I took this picture last April, just a year ago now and it had only been uncovered in the past year. So it is the first century Roman road that leads right into the center of the city towards the agora, the marketplace, the business area so it is very likely that this was a road that Paul and Barnabas would have actually walked in as they left the harbor and walked in towards the city to check things out. So it’s special when you realize that this could very well be the place where the great Apostle started his missionary journey.
CM: Let me just – I didn’t even tell you I was going to ask you this but – let me just throw this out. The last time we had you on the program you were actually heading off, we go t you at an airport club in London or someplace I think –
JH: No in Chicago.
CM: You were in Chicago. You were getting ready to fly into Egypt
JH: That’s right
Cm: To continue your dig and the supposed “Jesus tomb” had been discovered and it was another National Geographic special coming out at Easter time to get headlines and actually, I guess, just talk to me a little bit. We mentioned it yesterday on our time together. Talk to me about faith and archaeology, how you fit that together as a believer in Christ but also you are a scholar, seeking to be scholarly.
JH: Well, one always tries to not go beyond what the evidence says. One always has to be very careful about the evidence and because I am a believer my belief is not based on the archaeological evidence, rather it comes along side and says, “You were right all along to believe that.” It’s not like, oh hey wow! Now I can believe this. It doesn’t work that way. I think those who have been front and center on the tomb of Jesus controversy – and it’s still being kicked around by some scholars who are trying to make hay while the sun shines – the great irony here of course is that those who have been pushing this are also people who seem very interested in the Gnostic materials, the Gospel of Judas, some of the non-Canonical or apocryphal literature and it seems that rather than being interested in Biblical archaeology they’ve become interested in the archaeology of Dan Brown and –
CM: Da Vinci Code! Yes.
JH: and it seems that what’s ironic is, here is a novel that Dan Brown wrote yet here are people who are going around trying to find evidence to change what is a novel and make it historical. And on the other hand we have the Bible that is historical and people are trying to use archaeology to tell us that it is a novel. So it’s quite interesting to see this reversal here but I think a lot of that kind of mindset is what’s motivating the whole “tomb of Jesus” matter in the recent debates, discussions that have been on TV and so on.
Cm: And they seem to keep showing up in the National Geographic. Do you ex-
JH: Yeah National Geographic in recent years thinks that because of their reputation and because they always op under the banner of science that that becomes a recipe for rejecting anything the Bible says for the most part. They seem to have not become scientific but wrapped themselves in the robe of science when really what they are saying is really that skepticism is what science naturally leads to rather than true, objective investigation can lead in different directions. It can lead us to showing the Bible to be accurate, historical.
CM: Yes. Isn’t that incredible? Yes.
JH: Sometimes it leaves us with question marks
CM: Yes
JH: and other times there is simply, the Bible has no bearing on the archaeological discovery. We have to recognize that the Bible represents, well the New Testament represents 100 years of history scattered from Rome and Greece and Asia Minor and Syria down into Israel. And to think that every find is somehow going to have bearing on the Bible of course is silly.
CM: Absolutely. Jim Hoffmeier, we’re out of time again so we’re going to have to have you on in another couple of years when you make another discovery. And on yesterday’s program we talked about what you found in Egypt and we’ll have you on again. But would you mind just leading us in prayer before you go?
JH: Sure.
Lord, we thank you that you are the Author of history, that you are the Creator of life and that through people you made you have advanced your causes, your purpose in history. And we’re thankful that the scriptures are a witness to that history, a witness to your actions, to your word and to your works. We thank you that archaeology does provide us a little window into that world and it shows us so many wonderful things that can help us in our appreciation for who you are and what you’ve done. So we give thanks for these good gifts, in Jesus’ name, amen.
CM: amen. Jim Hoffmeier, thank you for leading us in prayer. Dr. James Hoffmeier from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School here on a Haven Today part 2 that we’re calling “Archaeology and the Bible”. Thank you so much for joining us and if you missed yesterday’s program, part one with Jim Hoffmeier, we’ve put that up on our website so that you can hear that as well. When you go to haventoday.org, I’d like to recommend to you a special book that we have that’s just written by Jim Hoffmeier. It’s called “The Archaeology of the Bible. It’s an amazing book because it’s really a text book with amazing charts and photographs and copy by Jim Hoffmeier. And it talks about how the Bible relates to archaeology and what has been found in the ancient near east. And the thing that I like about it is that he goes into the latest research that you’re not going to find in other places, things that he’s been talking with us about on the program today. If you’re a student of the Bible, perhaps you’re a teacher of the Bible, this is a book that belongs in your library so read about it on our website, h.a.v.e.n.t.o.d.a.y, haventoday.org. Now we ask you for your gift to the ministry and thanks to everyone that gives above and beyond the suggested gift amount. That’ll help us here at Haven Today. We will also send you a bonus CD with these two programs with Jim Hoffmeier. You can call us if you want. Let me give you our toll free number in North America. It’s 1-800-654-2836. Let me give you our mailing address as well and I would encourage you to write us:
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I’m Charles Morris and I want to thank you for being with me and Jim Hoffmeier. Would you come back again tomorrow where we’re going to be talking about David and a foe that he didn’t know whether he could beat or not and we’ll also talk about the historicity of David. Did he really exist? Was he really a king and did he have a large kingdom? We’re going to do that in light of archaeology but more than that, in light of the great story that’s all about Jesus tomorrow, together, on Haven Today.