Out of 100 making Time Magazine's list of most influential people, only two are professing Christians. You may have heard of the American, Pastor Rick Warren who authored The Purpose Driven Life. But you may not know the other Christian. On the next Haven Today, Charles Morris is joined in an exclusive interview by the Englishman John Stott, a man in his early 80's who for decades has led students all over the world to faith in Jesus Christ. Be sure and listen to a program called "Why I Am A Christian".

April 18, 2005

Why Am I A Christian? (A time with John Stott)

Two out of a hundred. Two professing Christians last week made Time Magazine’s 100 Most Influential People of the World. You may have heard of the American, Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church and author of “The Purpose Driven Life”. The other person you may not know, but I’d like you to get to know him. This Englishman is now in his early 80s but for decades and still today, he’s leading students all over the world to faith in Jesus Christ. Younger people love him. I’m Charles Morris and welcome to Haven Today, where in the next few minutes you will hear a Haven exclusive interview with John Stott. So get ready for an important time together on a program called “Why Am I A Christian?”

Song:

CM: We’re visiting in a garden here, in Santa Barbara, California. I’m Charles Morris, with Dr. John Stott. Dr. Stott, may I call you John?
JS: Please do, rather.
CM: Thank you for being on Haven Today. We’re an American program, so I will even call you John here as we go ahead.
JS: Feel free. I am quite used to it.
CM: Let’s talk about your view of the world. It’s a Christian view of course. Many people, many of our listeners would have read your books through the years. As you look at the church today around the world, the global church, what do you see? What encourages you, but perhaps what bothers you at the same time?
JS: What a question to ask if one can generalize about these things. But I think I can. My immediate reaction is that the world Christian scene is a paradox. It’s a paradox of growth without depth. On the one hand, there is this extraordinary church growth. Not in every country in the world, but in many countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America, as you know, the church is growing phenomenally. I think explosion would not be too dramatic a word to use. I remember listening some years ago to one of the experts in church growth who said that in a recent 15 year period, 30 million Christians had been added to the churches of Africa. And he went on to say that it took Europe 1000 years to add 30 million. And what Europe did in 1000 years, Africa did in 15.
CM: My Goodness.
JS: So that’s the explosion.
CM: Yes.
JS: But then there’s another side, can I go on with another side of the paradox?

CM: Please do, yes.
JS: There’s another side to the paradox. And that is that marvelous as the statistical growth is, and much as I rejoice in it – as much as anybody else -there is a superficiality almost everywhere. There’s evangelism without discipleship. And I believe that God wants his church to grow, not only in size, but in depth. So, “Growth Without Depth” is the simple three word paradox that I would use for the situation today.
CM: Do you think this is something that has just been slowly building or has this been something that is perhaps just the last few years?

JS: Well, I suppose I know the last few years better than I know any previous generations, but I would not say that it’s something unusual that’s happened.
CM: OK
JS: I think it is a tendency, because after all we see it in the New Testament. We see that the Apostles of Jesus writing their letters are always complaining about the superficiality of the churches.
CM: Yes they were. Yes. This may be an unnatural marker, but let me put a division here. There is the church around the world and then there is the Western church. What do you see as good or what do you see as bad about the Western church? And get on your soapbox, say whatever you will.
JS: I think I need to say what is bad, rather than what is good.
CM: Alright.
JS: What is bad in the Western church? Well, if I can summon my wits, I think we have to look back about 250 years to the beginning of The Enlightenment. When a number of well known deist philosophers mounted a frontal attack on the Christian church. And the church, again if I can generalize, was feeble enough to give in to that attack. And ever since then, because the church I think lost the battle at that time, ever since then the graphs have been going steadily down of numbers of church membership and so on, in the west.
CM: Some of these deists were even wearing the cloak of the clergy.
JS: That’s right. They were.
CM: They were ministers of the gospel supposedly.
JS: One or two presidents of the United States as well.
CM: Yes, that’s right. They would have called themselves enlightened Christians, but they really didn’t know Jesus as their savior.
JS: I suppose Jefferson is the main example.
CM: Thomas Jefferson, yes.
JS: He rewrote the New Testament didn’t he, on two occasions, or the Gospels was it?
CM: Yes
JS: Eliminating all references to miracle.
CM: But you think that kind of tracing it back 250 years to the Enlightenment, that still is influencing the church in the West today?
JS: Well, I’m afraid I think it is. I think still. Thinking people at least in the West that I know, which is Europe rather than America, thinking people have dismissed the church. They just don’t believe that it has anything to say today. To me it’s very embarrassing, but that is the situation.
CM: And you think Christianity, I would see this more as an American in the United States of America, North America, I would see perhaps a dumbing down of religion, of Christianity to be able to reach more people, but yet you’re not necessarily reaching people with the truth always are you?
JS: That’s correct. And you did mention, I think, earlier in our conversation the difference between “churchianity” and true authentic Christianity. And what you and I mean by being a Christian is having come to a personal commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And in Christendom around the world, often that is not the case.
CM: Dr. John Stott is our guest today, here on Haven Today.

Song:

CM: Our guest here on Haven Today, is Dr. John Stott. He’s in the United States right now. We’re in a beautiful garden in Santa Barbara, perhaps a bit like the Garden of Eden, but we can look forward to a nicer garden in days ahead for those of us heading to Heaven. John, what is your passion? Do you mind my saying how old you are right now?
JS: No, not at all. I’m in my 83rd year.
CM: You’re in your 83rd year and you’re still working very hard, that I know. What is your passion? What has your passion for the kingdom been through these last several decades of your ministry?
JS: Well, I think the answer probably is university and college students. Maybe because I became a Christian when I was a student, just on 17 years old. And I wasn’t really helped in some ways, to grow into maturity in Christ. I hesitate, you can tell, I’m hesitating to say that because I did have some wonderful helpers, but I had many intellectual problems. I was, I suppose, to some degree a thinking person. And it worried me that I couldn’t get answers to some of these questions. So this has led me, I think, in my concern to develop a ministry to students, namely, in my case, with Intervarsity Fellowship.
CM: All over the world.
JS: I think, I’ve never actually tottered them up, but I think I have had the privilege of leading 50 one-week university missions in universities, as you say again, all over the world.
CM: And in addition to that, just the traveling to countries and individual meetings and the Lausanne Evangelism Conference that you have been a part of and actually helped to draft I think, the document. Why students? Why is that an important way to reach people with the Kingdom of Jesus Christ?
JS: Well, the obvious answer is that the students of today are the opinion formers of tomorrow. Just as the opinion formers of today were the students of yesterday. So, when one is talking with a student, one is talking to someone who is already a leader, students are already, I mean they bring down governments in different parts of the world, students have enormous power. But in addition to that, we are handling a person who is going to have a great influence probably in his or her own circle in days to come. So I long that we should win these students when they are in these student years, when their philosophy has not yet been formulated, when they are open to listen to the credentials of Christianity if they are thoughtfully presented.
CM: Would you say it’s true, I’ve always heard this, that the older one gets the harder it is to be Christ?
JS: I think it is so, again as a generalization. Although there are notable exceptions of people who’ve come to Christ in later years, but generally speaking, people before and during their teens and in their early 20s, if they haven’t yet formulated their beliefs, they are open, they are malleable. So let’s get them when they are young.
CM: Right. If someone were sitting with us here in this garden right now, and they didn’t know Christ as their savior and you could say anything to them. What would you say to them?
JS: Oh, I would talk about Jesus, of course without doubt. Christianity is Christ. I’m not concerned so much to defend a system, but I am concerned to promote Christ, to uplift Him. And I’ve often said I think it is true that you could describe many students in the world today as friendly to Jesus Christ, but hostile to the church. And they are hostile to the church because they see in the church, a dichotomy between its founder and the church itself. So the church doesn’t live up to its founder. So when talking to students, I don’t think I’ve ever come across a student who doesn’t have at least a sneaking admiration for Jesus, so I would want to talk about Him.
CM: Isn’t that interesting. There are many ,many people that think they have to win someone to Christ or argue them into the kingdom, but I am not hearing that from you.
JS: Well, I believe in arguing people into the kingdom. I notice that the apostles of Jesus, especially as Paul is described by Luke in the Acts, we find them arguing. And at the end of one of their missions, Luke writes so many people were persuaded. We never use that word. We say, “thank God there were 100 people converted.” We never say 100 people persuaded or convinced, but the apostles did. And Paul summed up his evangelistic ministry in three words, “we persuade people” in 2 Corinthians chapter 5.
CM: So even though you said a moment ago, it’s not a system that you are trying to impose on someone. You want to lead them to Christ. There is this concept of persuasion that is important.
JS: Absolutely. O f persuading them that Jesus is the Savior of the world.
CM: And the only Savior.
JS: The only Savior of the world. Right.
CM: What are you doing today? What are you doing with your time?
JS: Enjoying this garden.
CM: Yes, we are!
JS: Hoping that a hummingbird might fly by.
CM: Yes, you’ve been a bird watcher, I know that for sure.
JS: I still am. And I love hummingbirds.
CM: I understand you are still writing quite a bit.
JS: I just had a book published called, “Why I Am A Christian”.
CM: That sounds like a John Stott title, I think.
JS: Well, you may remember that Bertrand Russel, that brilliant Nobel Peace Prize winner and philosopher, wrote a book called, “Why I Am Not A Christian”. So this is not exactly a point by point rebuttal-
CM: But you had that book in mind.
JS: I had that book in mind. And I’ve given 6 or 7 reason why I am a Christian, so it is, it’s a mildly evangelistic book, an attempt to commend Christ.
CM: We’re told, that people listening to Christian radio in North America, of those listening, George Barna who lives very near the garden where we are right now, says that about a third of the people that listen to Christian radio don’t know Christ as their Savior. Would you mind leading us in prayer and leading some people listening right now? Just, would you pray for them?
JS: I would love to, yes.
CM: Thank you.
JS: Let’s pray. Our Father, we come to You in the name of Jesus Christ, Your son. And we want to pray for friends and others whom we don’t even know, who are seeking and searching and have not yet found You. We want to pray that Your Holy Spirit will open the eyes of their understanding so that they may see the truth as it is in Jesus and may come to put their trust in Him as their Savior, their Lord and their God. We bring them to You in the arms of our love. In Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

Song: (Instrumental)

CM: I hear that song, written by Walt Herra, and played by Bill Cantos from his “Be Still My Soul” album, and how can one not think of the love of Jesus Christ and the freedom that we find there. John 8:36 – “So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” John Stott our special guest on this Haven Today. Somebody who has spent an entire lifetime leading students all over the world to faith in Jesus Christ. Now maybe in the last few minutes you’ve been intrigued with what you’ve heard about Jesus, or you may kind of have that funny feeling that God wants to get your attention, or maybe you’re simply looking for meaning and direction in your life. Well, that’s what John Stott is all about. And he may be in his early 80s, but I can tell you this from having been with him and seen him in other settings, that students no matter what age, are attracted to this Englishman, because he gives them truth that they don’t find in other places. We have John Stott’s book, “Why I Am A Christian”. It’s a book that he wrote, just to introduce people – it’s not a big thick tome – but it’s a wonderful, easily readable book on why he found Jesus Christ and how you too, can find the Lord as your Savior. Or maybe someone you know and care about very deeply. Well, we have “Why I Am A Christian” here at Haven Today. You can find it on our website. And you’ll see a picture of John Stott on our website, haventoday.org. If you’d like to know more about his ministry, you could look it up on the internet, johnstott.org. Or if you like, you could give us a telephone call. Toll free in North America: 1-800-65-HAVEN, 1-800-654-2836 and we’d love to share this book with you for you to share with someone else. I’m going to give you our mailing address, too, where you can write to us, and remind you as I share this address that Haven is listener supported. We survive, but we also grow because of your financial support. Could you help us, and bring Jesus to more people? Send your gift to:
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I’m Charles Morris, blessings to you. See you again tomorrow as we again serve Jesus Christ together on Haven Today.